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#1 
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Posted Yesterday, 10:08 AM
http://www.nytimes.c...-in-senate.html' WASHINGTON ?
It has been labeled a tax grab and a bureaucratic nightmare by conservative antitax activists, an infringement on states? rights and a federal encroachment on the almost-sacred ground of Internet commerce.
Yet legislation to help states force online retailers to collect sales taxes easily cleared its first procedural hurdle on Monday evening, and even its fiercest opponents are looking to the House for a last stand. The Senate voted 74-20 to take up the legislation for debate and amendment.
The bill, known as the Marketplace Fairness Act, is that rare piece of legislation that has turned Democrat against Democrat, Republican against Republican and business against business, while uniting states as different as New Hampshire, Montana and Oregon ? which have no sales taxes ? against virtually every other state.
An odd confluence of events has swung the political momentum to one side. Less than a week after the Senate could not muster 60 votes to expand gun background checks supported by a vast majority of voters, lawmakers from both parties are poised to steamroll opponents and greatly broaden the imposition of sales taxes on the Internet.
Under the bill, online retailers would collect an estimated $22 billion to $24 billion that now goes uncollected. A final vote is expected in the Senate by the end of the week. When the House will take up the issue is uncertain.
Old-fashioned retailers are going bust, leaving towns marred by vast, empty storefronts. Those that remain complain of ?showrooming,? when shoppers inspect their wares, then leave the store to buy the same products on the Internet, finding lower prices and avoiding sales taxes.
Republicans including Senators Mike Enzi of Wyoming and Lamar Alexander of Tennessee are as adamantly in favor of the bill as Democrats.
Finally, Senate Democratic leaders needed a bill to move to quickly after gun legislation all but died last week, and the Internet tax bill was ready.
President Obama on Monday threw his support behind the bill, which the White House said ?will level the playing field for local small business retailers that are in competition every day with large out-of-state online companies.?
The bill would allow states to require all Internet sellers to collect sales taxes for the state and local governments of the buyers. State governments would be required to provide software free to Internet retailers to calculate sales taxes. Online retailers with out-of-state sales of less than $1 million a year would be exempt.
Many of the largest Web retailers have already begun collecting sales taxes. Amazon.com has joined a vast constellation of brick-and-mortar retailers in collecting taxes, leaving eBay to fight an increasingly lonely battle. In March, the Senate held a test vote of sorts, a nonbinding amendment to the Senate budget that mirrored the Marketplace Fairness Act. '
the interweb is destroying a whole layer of tax revenues,pension plans and economic wealth built on shopping.they had to do soemthing.wonder how they'll balance it out here?
Red Kharma, on 31 May 2010 - 11:51 AM, said:
Most gold buyers will get creamed, eventually and for the very reasons they think they won't.
#2 ?
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Posted Yesterday, 10:42 AM
Do you know who is pushing this the hardest? Amazon.Why? Because it will destroy the thousands of small internet sellers and those who use Ebay.
Amazon is building vast warehouses in run down states and in return is getting deal that exempt it from certain tax.
This isnt about protecting the shops.Its about Amazon killing off the one thing that can be more competitive than them and long term destroy their business.Small internet retailers with websites and on Ebay.
#3 ?
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Posted Yesterday, 11:05 AM
durhamborn, on 28 April 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:
Why? Because it will destroy the thousands of small internet sellers and those who use Ebay.
Amazon is building vast warehouses in run down states and in return is getting deal that exempt it from certain tax.
This isnt about protecting the shops.Its about Amazon killing off the one thing that can be more competitive than them and long term destroy their business.Small internet retailers with websites and on Ebay.
You have knocked the nail on the head Durham.
Many small retailers were lured in by Amazon and listed their products only to become dismayed at the amount of commission they were charging.
Subsequently they lost faith and bailed out of Amazon only to find Amazon never ever deleted their product listings. So searches for their products Amazon now outrank them in google even though they mark the product out of stock and with no resupply date.
The march of the globalists and their moves to eradicate the small people gathers pace.
Google search results in the last year or so are now freezing out the smaller operators in favour of the bigger brands.
Some schools of thought take the view this is what panda and penguin updates was about.
An example, if I want a small cosy hotel close to Lake Windermere I want a list of independent hotels which I can compare. I don't want booking.com at the top of the list and other operators like tripadvisor and laterooms trying to get me to buy what they consider I want based on the amount of commission they can screw from the hotel. Half the time these places won't even return results in the area I want.
This is the space for the signature thingy.........
#4 ?
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Posted Yesterday, 11:15 AM
durhamborn, on 28 April 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:
Why? Because it will destroy the thousands of small internet sellers and those who use Ebay.
Amazon is building vast warehouses in run down states and in return is getting deal that exempt it from certain tax.
This isnt about protecting the shops.Its about Amazon killing off the one thing that can be more competitive than them and long term destroy their business.Small internet retailers with websites and on Ebay.
It's "Baptists and Bootleggers" legislation i.e. ostensibly to make sure everyone "pays their fair share" (Baptist side of the argument), however, sponsored and lobbied for by a huge corporate to create a legal monopoly.
#5 ?
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Posted Yesterday, 01:02 PM
Yep. What ive heard is the big boys will easily cope with this, processing the tax code for 50+ states. If your'e a small supplier, it will be near impossible, and hugely expensive.Its just using govt to create another barrier to entry and thwart any semblance of a free market and consumer choice. Hence why majorities of both parties are on board.
#6 ?
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Posted Yesterday, 01:30 PM
Am not sure what is going on here?Is the tax due? Or is the bill coming in to force tax to be charged in the buyer's state? If it is needed, then how can the likes of Amazon etc already be collecting these sales taxes?
And isn't this just the same as the VAT scene in the EU? If you are selling your goods in another EU country then, subject to a smallish threshold (and much less that $1m) you need to start charging local rates of VAT to your consumers?
And finally if the threshold is $1m, then doesn't this protect the smaller businesses that some of the earlier posts portray as the victims here? And more, protect those local small businesses in the states where sales tax is levied already?
The facts above belong to everybody; the opinions to me.... the distinction is yours to draw.
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Posted Yesterday, 02:33 PM
Red-Cardinal, on 28 April 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:
Is the tax due? Or is the bill coming in to force tax to be charged in the buyer's state? If it is needed, then how can the likes of Amazon etc already be collecting these sales taxes?
And isn't this just the same as the VAT scene in the EU? If you are selling your goods in another EU country then, subject to a smallish threshold (and much less that $1m) you need to start charging local rates of VAT to your consumers?
And finally if the threshold is $1m, then doesn't this protect the smaller businesses that some of the earlier posts portray as the victims here? And more, protect those local small businesses in the states where sales tax is levied already?
"Online retailers with out-of-state sales of less than $1 million a year would be exempt."
A little confusing here - does that mean $1m of on-line sales, or $1m of sales in total? Some retailers will sell on-line, over the phone, and also from a shop.
Does the sales tax apply depending on the state the seller is in, or the buyer is in? It would seem the latter. So what happens if you buy from a bricks-and-mortar shop? Do they check to see what state you live in? I doubt it. Are there customs at state boundaries? Nope.
It does seem unfair that shop sellers have to charge tax, but online sellers don't. But it may be unfair because sales are taxed, period.
So this legislation means that if you go into an Oregon shop, you will be able to buy tax-free, and take it home to, say, NY. But if you buy online from an Oregon shop, you will have to pay NY sales tax when it is delivered to you. In other words, it's still going to be a mess.
I thought European VAT rule inconsistencies were bad enough.
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Posted Yesterday, 03:48 PM
Executive Sadman, on 28 April 2013 - 01:02 PM, said:
. If your'e a small supplier, it will be near impossible, and hugely expensive.
What ARE you talking about?
It's basic functionlaity already built into any accounting package or online selling software they're already using.
And even if not it'll take about an hour in Excel to work out.
It's not even a increase in taxes: the taxes are already due it's just with the sellers not charging it the buyer is meant to go down his local tax office and settle up.
#9 ?
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Posted Yesterday, 03:49 PM
happy_renting, on 28 April 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:
A little confusing here - does that mean $1m of on-line sales, or $1m of sales in total? Some retailers will sell on-line, over the phone, and also from a shop.
Does the sales tax apply depending on the state the seller is in, or the buyer is in? It would seem the latter. So what happens if you buy from a bricks-and-mortar shop? Do they check to see what state you live in? I doubt it. Are there customs at state boundaries? Nope.
It does seem unfair that shop sellers have to charge tax, but online sellers don't. But it may be unfair because sales are taxed, period.
So this legislation means that if you go into an Oregon shop, you will be able to buy tax-free, and take it home to, say, NY. But if you buy online from an Oregon shop, you will have to pay NY sales tax when it is delivered to you. In other words, it's still going to be a mess.
I thought European VAT rule inconsistencies were bad enough.
First once in whos to say this wont be reduced.Also this puts a massive ceiling on online sales and a business growing.This is simply Amazon mainly trying to kill small business.Ebay is fighting hard to stop it because it will hit hard a lot of their small business sellers.
Amazon are losing the battle against smaller sellers.Many warehouses now offer very similar systems to Amazon for small sellers.I use one.Amazon cant compete and they want to kill these small companies.
The internet is the one place a small person can take on the big companies.Amazon want to kill that.
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Posted Yesterday, 03:56 PM
gadget, on 28 April 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:
It's basic functionlaity already built into any accounting package or online selling software they're already using.
And even if not it'll take about an hour in Excel to work out.
Really? Do you mind showing me some links to these accounting packages ?
You tend to be able to create those codes - but that is a hugely laborious process for a small business (and nothing for AMZN of course).
An example here: http://crmconsultanc...lude-tax-codes/
Also these rates changes from time to time (even UK VAT went from 15% to 17.5% then back to 17.5% and then 20%). The sales tax exemption list also changes from time to time.
Now, the online shopping carts also need to take into account of these rates.
Quote
It's not even a increase in taxes: the taxes are already due it's just with the sellers not charging it the buyer is meant to go down his local tax office and settle up.
Then clearly we should just do nothing ( why waste congress time) and just let the buyer do what they meant to do then..
This post has been edited by easy2012: Yesterday, 04:02 PM
#11 ?
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Posted Yesterday, 03:56 PM
durhamborn, on 28 April 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:
Amazon are losing the battle against smaller sellers.Many warehouses now offer very similar systems to Amazon for small sellers.I use one.Amazon cant compete and they want to kill these small companies.
The internet is the one place a small person can take on the big companies.Amazon want to kill that.
Durhamborn - do you mean the fullfillment service ?
#12 ?
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Posted Yesterday, 04:03 PM
durhamborn, on 28 April 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:
Why? Because it will destroy the thousands of small internet sellers and those who use Ebay.
Amazon is building vast warehouses in run down states and in return is getting deal that exempt it from certain tax.
This isnt about protecting the shops.Its about Amazon killing off the one thing that can be more competitive than them and long term destroy their business.Small internet retailers with websites and on Ebay.
Don't a lot of small businesses selling on Ebay also sell on Amazon and other sites?
Was recently playing around with software called Linn Works, which is stock inventory and shipping inventory software for online traders and it integrates with Ebay, Amazon as well as Magento and other e-commerce sites.
Linn Systems also produce software called "Mean Pricer" or something which allows to monitor and undercut competitors on Amazon. Your own race to the bottom, if the comp also has the same software! 
The other thing that the traditional items such as s/h CD's and DVD's now seem almost unsellable unless you let them go often less than they cost to post and pack.
This post has been edited by Secure Tenant: Yesterday, 04:08 PM
Secure Long Term Tenancies For All - Don't Accept AST Crap
#13 ?
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Posted Yesterday, 04:10 PM
gadget, on 28 April 2013 - 03:48 PM, said:
It's not even a increase in taxes: the taxes are already due it's just with the sellers not charging it the buyer is meant to go down his local tax office and settle up.
Nope - there is case law in the US stating that sales tax is not due on items sold over the internet in different states. if you sell over the internet in the same state, then tax is due. Otherwise, no.
@ durhamborn - spot on.
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Posted Yesterday, 04:16 PM
easy2012, on 28 April 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:
Durhamborn - do you mean the fullfillment service ?
Yes,iv now got all my stock in a shared warehouse where we all book in from home and its then sent out from the warehouse.The couriers are based in the same warehouse as well.It undercuts Amazons operation.I also get the containers into there so its a one stop option.
http://www.guardian....tax-bill-amazon
Ebay lobby against it for the very reasons said on here.
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Posted Yesterday, 04:23 PM
Secure Tenant, on 28 April 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:
Was recently playing around with software called Linn Works, which is stock inventory and shipping inventory software for online traders and it integrates with Ebay, Amazon as well as Magento and other e-commerce sites.
Linn Systems also produce software called "Mean Pricer" or something which allows to monitor and undercut competitors on Amazon. Your own race to the bottom, if the comp also has the same software!
The other thing that the traditional items such as s/h CD's and DVD's now seem almost unsellable unless you let them go often less than they cost to post and pack.
Yes they do ,and so do i.
However i never stock anything thats a common item as like you say on Amazon everyone cuts and cuts to be cheapest and there is no margin.
Ebay is a far better platform for small companies IMO.Google drives a lot of sales.
Postage is a massive problem now for online sellers and iv moved to higher value items that can carry postage easier.Mid range items are getting almost priced out now due to postage,and most of thats down to fuel costs.
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